post digital cinema for children and youth

First CIFEJ’s live conversations

Headline: post digital cinema for children and youth

Vahid Golestan and Mahgan Farhang

Translator: Ali Iranban

Thanks to :Mohsen chiniforushan .  Elham Shirvani. Azadeh Shakuri Rad. Maryam Sajedi . Nilufar Aein .

This interview is being held done between two activists and researchers of children and youth cinema from Iran and Spain during the quarantine. The conversation is a scientific and educational conversation that was commissioned by “CIFEJ” (international film festival for children and youth) on the subject of educational and cinematic content for children and adolescents.

– Mahgan farhang: Thank you so much for being our guest on CIFEJ Live conversation today. You know about CIFEJ’s goals and what it’s aiming for and again, I kindly ask the audience to do some good and mindful research about CIFEJ. By the way, the main goal of this community is researching and participating in scientific and practical activities about children and youth cinema worldwide. CIFEJ was established in 1995 and has active members from all around the world. Organizing multiple workshops, seminars and conferences, being awarded in different film festivals, journals and websites, as well as a new and practical web design alongside connecting with Facebook are well examples showing that this community is active and alive. As of today, the CEO of CIFEJ is Mr. Mohsen Chiniforoushan and the CIFEJ office is in one of it’s headquarter buildings in Tehran.

 One of the notable things to mention about CIFEJ is the effort of finding the children activists and specialists from all around the world to reach its goals.

Therefore, we concentrate in this matter and we try to interview with experts and people who are experienced in this field or has done some helpful activities about children and youth. And of course, we try to contact with movie or media and press enthusiasts. And here we have dedicated our first interview to you.

We interview Dr. vahid golestan, children and youth screenwriter and filmmaker and specialist in educational technologies. One of the main participants of Roshd film festival and national student festival of Iran for many years and also has a great presence in huge activities for children and youth cinema as well as guiding and managing them, until now.

But today we want to talk with you about post digital cinema and children for youth. This might be new or familiar, and it’s surly one of our concerns but perhaps we should have a better understanding of this matter and try to know it better. we are in information era where we are bombarded by a huge amount of information through all of this communication ways, and what status does children media and children cinema have in this era that I mentioned?

– vahid golestan: I am very flattered to have this conversation, especially because we are talking about cinema or cinema knowledge in general. First, we have a specific categorization which is a well-known principle in all the environments that have to do with children and youth. It is making films about and for children, both have their own importance and I think there is no questioning in that and in fact CIFEJ has considered this categorization.

Children’s movies are important because they make dreams as well as entertainment, they will allow children to experience and have a good time and feel good.

On the other hand, Children’s movies are the kind that have a major educational aspect and they try to aim for all of their audience which are parents and children activists as well.  But today we want to concentrate on the children, we try to put them in an author’s position and instead of making them a complete consumer of cinema universe, we try to bring them in the process of film making. Considering the technologies that we have on our sides especially what children are provided with, we put children in author’s position and not just as audience. And we also know about children for children movement, existing all over the world. But I have a different approach here. I should even mention that some of the filmmakers and critics have objections such as that filmmaking process is complicated and why should we enter children to filmmaking and it is not necessary to do such thing or they might say what is the purpose? I can tell that here the outcome and product is not of importance. What matters is the journey and process itself.

What children experience from thinking about a certain topic or subject, researching about it, starting to learn things in the path that the topic will take them into, and how they step in this road and even how they speak and say what they mean, which is the act picturing. These all helps them to have a better understanding of their surrounding world. (This was my introduction of the conversation).

– Mahegan Farhang: I want to add something to your sayings, this important matter includes teamwork and interaction or even improvement of thoughts. When children want to do some research about something or even record a footage, which is a new experience for them, they have to cooperate with one another and form groups containing at least a pair. This is what teaches them teamwork and managing group projects. Maybe they even find out the meaning and concept of teamwork while doing this activities. Anyways, we know that cinema universe is vast and has different styles and approaches. For example, history, technicalities, ways etc.

So, children are not supposed to treat cinema as a professional cinematographer, but rather they will encounter thought and perception as you said.  Nurturing thought and mind is important here.

– Vahid Golestan: yes exactly. But then again, I have another point that I have to mention here. I see cinema as a tool for thinking, creating and self-improvement. We are dealing with two types of children here, one is the children who want to become a cinematographer, and the other one is all the other children. I mean all the children that can use cinema as a tool to express their thoughts.

For instance, in CIFEJ days we pursue the purpose of teaching cinema and training filmmakers and I think the CIFEJ days were very successful in their workshops. Good vision and cooperation is clearly seen in CIFEJ day plans. But we want to talk about a different general skill that we can think of it as a pen that is in every one’s reach. Everybody has this pen, but not everyone is a writer. If everyone wants to become a writer, they should at least learn how to read and write and then enter to the literature atmosphere, have some talent and potion and then begin to write. It means that if we give a pen to every single human on earth, we don’t have as many writers. But what happens here.

This pen gives an opportunity and has a potential for taking the first step, and the pen can make people learn how to read and write. Even the writers themselves have to learn some grammars and principals to be able to improve their language.

I give another example. In past few years, we have seen the improvement and widespread use of digital photography and I myself heard a lot of my photographer friends being worried and stating that they went through a lot of effort and hardship and years of experimenting to learn the relation between shutter and diaphragm exposure etc. but now days, a single button and digital technology made everything so simple and easy. But in my opinion, these don’t matter anymore. We can focus on beauty and cadre or even presence. We couldn’t focus on aesthetics because of the technical struggles we’ve gone through. So basically photography has turned from a complex and technical phenomenal to a widespread and general one and now we know that everyone can photograph and has done photography at some point. But the need to professional photographers has grown rather than decreasing. But becoming a photographer is harder now.

Our data and statics show that the amount of using video content in comparison to other forms has reached to 50% and will probably increase to 90%. This is a great number and it makes me to tell myself, now is the time that children can produce. They either make a good production or a bad one, in any case nothing bad will happen.

Because we have brought children to a structure depending on new tools that will teach them good things.

That’s completely right and very excellent. During the outbreak, we’ve seen the effect and presence of video in educational and informational aspect vas very successful.

We even had SIFEJ quarantine days and we will post the pieces that were made with children from distance. We have received many good products that were made by children from 6 to 18 years old. Also they had to gather information about their life style in quarantine and as you said, they got involved in the process. We even received good feedback from the audience and they got involved in the process to.

– Vahid Golestan (after watching two animations, one of the, from 10 years old Roshana Kanaani and the other one from 16 years old Sara Seraj): both of the pieces were lovely and had a technical vision. In other words, they had a certain purpose while making their pieces. Two pieces with different vibes. The first one had a childish imagination vibe and the other one had a bit of different vision. It had a teenager pubescence that seemed to try and put logic and wisdom instead of imagination.

One of the good utilities and points of children’s movies, is that the can give us a picture of what is happening in children’s minds or even a generation. They would tell us things like, what is the children’s priorities and worries? What do they think about? How do they describe the world around them? In fact, watching the children’s movies are like having a conversation with them that will even allow us to make a plan and foresee the upcoming factors. Foresee the weaknesses of our own and to know where we didn’t do that much of a good job or where is our strong points? Or even the natural distance and the gap between all the generations which is between our parents and us and our children. Right now, this generation is considered as the local digital generation and they spend their lives in a different way than us which are just some migrators to this digital world, and some are even persistent to keep away from this change.

No matter which group we are in, we are not the civilian people of this digital era and we just bring our traits to their environment, that’s why the movies and the work will tell us where we are thinking wrong and from where we should get closer to them or even keep our distance.

The point is, we always set our eyes on what children must do but the thing is that what they shouldn’t do may be more constructive for them than what they should. We should allow them to create at some points, even if they can’t solve problems well or the creation is not very good.

An effective feature of these movies is this problem solving, having a great and first class experience and learning the video recording skills and of course post digital, which is one of the things that I want to talk about now.

– Mahgan Farhang: as we are going to dive in our main subject, considering the relation between children and post digital era, I want you to represent the living experience of children, thought, having a deep vision and not just seeing the surface alongside this kind of skill that you want to talk about. And mention the difference between the way of how we see the world and how the children see it.

– Vahid Golestan: we should start with the living experience subject. No matter how young the children that want to enter this atmosphere are, they have an experience of living depending on their age which is related to their senses and their relationship with their families. What happens here is that they will have an experience of their own childhood and educating and going to school is one of them which is not pleasant as well, education system is widespread all around the world and it is a system that children are forced to study and learn subjects that are not interested in and they always have this question that why do we have to study these and what good they will bring later on? The reason behind this questions is the fact that the books are ahead from children’s needs and curiosities but what is created from children’s own lived experiences, is built out of their needs and passion. They may ask us some questions, but we gradually take these questions and their curiosity from them because of bad methods. But the camera gives them the opportunity to see, seek, think and team up again or even take a big step and go a little bit outside of their family zone.

Lived experience has another important point, which is the origin of the lived experience, “me”. This means that instead of memorizing some quotes or poetry that you have no understanding from, I will encounter a problem and I see that my puzzle is getting completed.

What I am talking about is not even considered as a cinematic piece, it’s a visual describe. Regarding this, we can put children in descriptive and specifying phase. For instance, in descriptive phase we ask the children to recreate the things they see around them. Camera is a tool for reportage. The interesting thing is that the cinema’s history is begun with this procedure. The first time that was born, we saw objects in front of camera as they were. There is no manipulation in those pictures, no mise en scène , no edit, it’s so simple.

If we take the simplest kind of documentary which is reporting documentary for example, as a filmmaker we do not interfere in the film, what is standing in front of camera is just as is in the film. This is in fact our option for descriptive phase.

This first step is for gaining some experience and skills and from here they can bring their imagination and creativity in the scene. I don’t want to talk about imagination, but about creativity, I can say that children can wonder about the simplest things and activities like a growing plant or a boiling kettle. Here the child will look at all the connections and relations before and after an event and when we ask him/her to make something about a process like making a tea, we asked him/her to proceed step by step and present it carefully.

Second phase is the descriptive phase. We ask “why” in this phase and this is a doorway to philosophy and opening up the concepts which may be more useful for children.

On this level, we can ask children to correlate a portion to a whole or the opposite. Like substitute one thing with their subject which is what happens in the poetic cinema. These can be a premiere to this work.

Filmmaking based on lived experience teaches children that what is around them and what they saw and comprehend from it, is not much and it is what it is. The new education motto in the world is that, not much is a lot. Here it’s being showed that my not much is a lot. What we see these days on internet and online environment is a lot of copying.

We have an approach in this matter that is very important. We tell the children that your encounter is important and it has personal nurturing concepts in it. Their confidence grows because they are showing what they captured and comprehended to a small group.

In this path, they may even see some deficiencies such as lack of studying or slumber in their work, and they see the aftermaths of these and it help them know and learn those with their own experience. Also they have communicated with their own type of people; children, family and teachers etc. this has a great value and it is effective and the most important thing is that I have learned to talk and communicate through this experience.

One of the good points about lived experience and the skill f capturing and recording pictures, is that the families can turn into a team and this change helps them to be with their child more often and experience different things with each other and children start to record various narratives from different aspects of life.

– Mahgan Farhang: was there any reactions to this?

– Vahid Golestan: I have heard some critics from my friends which is saying that, basically filmmaking is a complex and has a complicated language, why should we involve them in it and this is not what we supposed to do. I’ve mentioned this matter before, but I will talk about it more now. So, basically our goal isn’t to replace the professional filmmakers in the future. In fact, children will enter a process which they see it as a common and normal activity and skill like cooking or driving. At the same time, restaurants need professional chefs and the world needs good drivers. In other word, new possibilities and having a good understanding of digital tools, will solve the technical complexities and I as a filmmaker that educated and worked in this field, or however and using whatever tool to become a filmmaker, shouldn’t think about my place being invaded facing teenagers that are saying their words and solving problems.

These two animations that I watched, for instance. One of them talked about the nature and coronavirus and coping with it by wearing a face mask and gloves and the other one had a minimal point of view and considered the outbreak and spread of the virus around the world and social distancing. More importantly, we should not forget that these children are a prospective audience of movies and cinema.

When we say cinema, we mean an opportunity and movies are a part if cinema. We are talking about the skill of video making. We don’t even bring the whole meaning and concept of the movies to the scene, let alone cinema. That’s why professional filmmaker or the major current of cinema wouldn’t be hurt by this but instead, they will face a noble audience and these children are a better audience and can help the current of filmmaking. Better reading, better understanding. (photo 1-6. Short animation by Roshana Kanani and 7-16 . short animation by : Sara Seraj )

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– Mahgan Farhang: we are speaking about one of the most important social matters or even the cinema and I think that we should clarify it based on post digital subject as well.

– Vahid Golestan: it’s necessary to mention that we are discussing abut a part of the post digital cinema. Another part is the concept of interaction. Interaction is a new opportunity. An online opportunity which is in access for this generation and all of the children, meaning that before internet, what mattered in drama was participation.

Filmmaker always wants to create his/her own concepts in a way, so that the viewer participates in it. From the first years of cinema’s birth till now, the viewer is experienced throughout all the watching and consumption and this is why there is a vast variety of movies. For example we have all these types of movies with different structures. No mater foreign or native. And why did this happen? Because of more participation from the viewers and getting more experienced. The same audience that would run away when they’ve been shown a train coming across the screen, now is that experienced that can watch different types of movies.

But now we have something called the internet. On the internet, we have interaction instead of participation.

What is the difference between interaction and participation? Well the difference is that I am not just a consumer and I will be a producer as well. Therefore, we encounter things like “cyber drama” which is a combination of drama (during centuries of theater and 100 years of cinema) and internet.

The cyber current is colliding with the internet. It’s a new thing and has some restrictions as well which the first one is the narrative. Narrative is the most fundamental thing which will change here. Maybe we can say that it’s being attacked and reaches to a formless state.

Although in our gnosis, being formless is the best. But at this position, understanding it is very complicated. Now there is a lot of individual narratives and it opens up the possibility of creating all kinds and types of structures and meanings.

In cinema we have this restriction, but in video and inline videos we have examples that the audience and the viewer can get to them.

For today’s children who can enter to any concept and current easily, the definition of aesthetic is different and at the same amount, entering to currents such as improvement, advisement, education and spreading the skill of video making and teaching it, is interaction for children and youth using these tools and utilities.

Therefore, we can see the possibility of networking and video making, not only in a house, school or city, but in many places and areas.

The new element of thinking in films, the element of the new ways and methods of comprehension which is very important in the cyber drama section. The cyber drama section has two aspects; one is that the children will come and record their own experiences for us, and the other one is that they can create their own pieces as an author.

We can say that, the gathering of a same age group and working together is very important and it is considered as a disciplinary fundamental.

One of the concepts that Grotowsky mention is that: the children who are with good and suitable same age children, have a better and faster growth than being with elderly or others.

We can gather a very larger community of learners which I think CIFEJ can lean towards this way in addition to the CIFEJ day and uses the cinema and video for children’s mind growth.

– Mahgan Farhang: One of the major concerns of CIFEJ is the children, and the activities that take place in it was the reason that we invited you, who has a great experience in cinema and teaching and even researching, to have a conversation with us to notify our audience about the aspects of teaching cinema and movies.

In my opinion, our audience should know more about the children and youth’s international or Iranian cinema environments; Isfahan film festival, Roshd film festival and also good foreign children and youth festivals. Our dear audience can provide them with the chosen movies in festivals as a food visual nutrition.

– Vahid Golestan: we are going to nurture the children from their own makings and products. Like when they cook and eat their own food.

– Mahgan Farhang: in any case, the cinema is a very vast and complex category and children’s world is a simple yet huge and complicated world. Now days, children are in the middle of communication tools and all kinds and types of media, they face an object called cell phones since they are just a new born and this really shows the difference between our world compare to them and as you said we are an immigrant in their land and we have to prepare the children for that atmosphere.

Thank you very much for accepting our invitation and joining us. I think we can help our children to grow with movies. I hope this interview had been useful for the majority of our audience.